It was I who indeed approached the St. Augustine Presbytery to participate in a trip to Israel sponsored by the Jewish Council for Public Affairs (JCPA). I am the director of one of the 125 community agencies that belong to JCPA. I heard about the trip and contacted the presbytery which was kind to place me in contact with several commissioners including Rev. Simpson, who expressed an interest in the trip.

When I discussed the trip with Rev. Simpson, I was unaware that the trip planned for Presbyterian pastors or elders is for those who are open to considering why divestment from companies operating in Israel is not an appropriate peacemaking path. The fact that I was not aware of this, does not exempt me from responsibility for what had occurred with Rev. Simpson. I hear his anger and I apologize to him for his disappointment.

I had the pleasure to speak with Rev. Simpson after his discussion with JCPA. We had a 90 minute conversation that I greatly enjoyed. Despite deep differences of opinion between us, I was impressed by his intellect and pleasantness and I found him to be a very interesting partner for dialogue. We agreed that we both will continue to be in contact and I look forward to continuing this dialogue in Florida.

Having said this, I do want to clarify a few points Rev. Simpson makes in his column.

As I understand it, the trip to Israel is neither “scripted” nor an “exercise in indoctrination”. The speakers addressing participants include Jewish and non-Jewish Israelis as well as Palestinians and other Christians living in Israel and Palestine. They have diverse views, including those that are very supportive and some that are critical of the policies of the Israeli government – and many in between. The trip includes visits to Bethlehem and Ramallah. It does not shy away from seeing and discussing the security barrier or Arab minorities. The purpose of the trip is to witness the extreme complexity of the region, an intention which is in stark contrast to trips hosted by one-sided organizations such as the Sabeel Institute and others.

By the same token, the entire “American Jewish community” cannot be painted with one brush-stroke. The Jewish community and our organizations are diverse, just as in the Presbyterian Church (USA). We do not as a whole exclude dissent. There are many mainstream American Jewish organizations that are on record criticizing various Israeli government policies. Peter Beinart, who is indeed somebody who represents a minority position, has been invited to express his views not only at JCPA’s annual conference, but also the General Assembly of the Jewish Federations of North America, one of the largest annual gatherings of the organized American Jewish community.

As noted already, I enjoyed my conversation with Rev. Simpson and look forward to our continuing dialogue. While we may disagree on strategies, we are deeply united in our desire for peace in the Middle East.

Luis Fleischman, Ph.D.

Executive Director,


Jewish Community Relations Council

Jewish Federation of Palm Beach County

“I suppose it shouldn’t surprise me much, given what people are saying to and about Peter Beinart, who is Jewish but whose popularity now approaches that of Yasser Arafat because of his calls for divestment from the West Bank. The American Jewish community seems to be unable to allow the kind of open manifestation of dissent that one sees all over the place in the state of Israel. You can disagree over there, but here, everyone has to stay inside the herd.”

You suggest that patience with heresy is not Biblical? What of 2 Peter 3:9:

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Is not the Lord’s patience with us not a model for our interactions with others? Perhaps I am naieve to think in such simplistic terms.

And by the way you should not assume that I am leaving the denomination. Likely I will not, but neither shall I label as “schismatics” those who in good conscience feel a need to withdrawl quietly.

In answer to your questions:

>then why weren’t we driven from the church decades ago?

1. Because some of us who know the truth wanted to show grace hoping to see repentance; and
2. Because in the majority of cases, when charges were brought, a largely biased judicatory system and PJC’s, protected, ruled and governed based on Book of Order provisions rather than biblical truth or theological correctness.

> in my twenty years in the PCUSA, during all of which I have advocated in the same fashion, nary a soul questioned my orthodoxy in any of the four presbyteries in which I served..

This says no more about your orthodoxy than it does the legitimacy of my comments. Arguing from an absence of something accomplishes nothing. The fact that I have never been arrested for speeding doesn’t
mean that I haven’t broken the law, perhaps even daily.

> People can’t work with you for that many years, knowing you believe as you do, and then when they lose a vote, turn on you and call you a heretic.

This is not at “us” or “them” war. The truth is the truth whether charges are brought or not, whether your heresy is tolerated or not, whether a vote goes one way or another. The fact that for years the PC(USA)’s “votes” seem to have clearly spoken God’s will on this matter effectively doesn’t mean that councils may not err and in this case they have.

> It’s only now, after losing a vote, that they want to gin it up into a first-order issue. And that just has no credibility to it. I’m the same guy I was before this vote as I am now.

As long as the truth was being upheld by the Presbyteries it wasn’t as crucial an issue. Now that the error is systemic it has become something of a first order issue.

To label as “disgruntled” those who want to continue the clear witness of sexual chastity and fidelity that has governed this denomination since it’s inception is silly. It is those who want to destroy the clear teaching of scripture that are the schismatics. You’ve already left the fold.

> I’m the same guy I was before this vote as I am now.

I rest my case.